Episode 23

We are joined by author, professor, and host of the podcast, "The Bible for Normal People", Dr Pete Enns as we ask the question, "If humans evolved, what do we do with Adam and Eve?" 

For many people, this is the main reason why they cannot seriously entertain human evolution. To do so would seemingly fly in the face of the veracity of scripture. If Adam is just a myth, does the whole thing fall apart? Pete doesn't think so, and neither do we. Join us as we learn to think about the Bible like the people who wrote the Bible and discover that these archaic stories still have a lot to teach us. 


Support this podcast on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/DowntheWormholepodcast

More information at https://www.downthewormhole.com/


produced by Zack Jackson 
music by Zack Jackson and Barton Willis 


Show Notes 

Most interesting thing in your room:

Ian, wine tap: 


Kendra’s vision board


Adam had bobble heads: martin luther: https://www.missionalwear.com/martin-luther-bobblehead and Katie von bora (Martin’s wife) https://oldlutheran.com/products/katie-luther-bobble-head-doll 

Rachael, full talmud, and why (to study a page a day): https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/9-things-to-know-about-the-daf-yomi-daily-page-of-talmud/ 

Zack, lime (orange?) tree, which as it turns out, can be hard to tell the difference: https://www.gardenguides.com/129997-difference-between-orange-lime-trees.html 

Pete, House of Lannister scotch: https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/47810/lagavulin-9-year-old-game-of-thrones-house-lannister 


All about our guest, Pete Enns:

Podcast, the Bible for normal people: https://thebiblefornormalpeople.podbean.com/ 

Books including “Sin of Certainty” and “Evolution of Adam” : https://peteenns.com/books/books-for-normal-people/ 

Someone wrote a review of “Evolution of Adam” and this is Pete’s response: https://peteenns.com/spinning-our-wheels-a-response-to-a-review-of-the-evolution-of-adam-with-apologies-to-those-with-a-500-word-1-6-minute-internet-attention-span/ 

The challenges of reading the Bible: https://peteenns.com/11-recurring-mistake-evangelicals-make-evolution-debate/



What was the Reformation? https://www.history.com/topics/reformation/reformation 

What is the Shulchan Arukh? https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-shulhan-arukh/ 

Romans 5 quote: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5%3A12-21&version=NIV 



More Episodes

Human Origins Part 3 (Did Big Cities Create Big Gods?)

January 22, 2020

Episode 22

Were the big, moralistic gods of most major religions created to control the people of the early cities? Did big gods enable the creation of big cities? Is religion just an artifact of the agricultural revolution? Which came first, and why is it so important? 

Support this podcast on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/DowntheWormholepodcast

More information at https://www.downthewormhole.com/


produced by Zack Jackson 
music by Zack Jackson and Barton Willis


Show Notes

Dunbars number, 150, and where it came from: https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/social-media-affect-math-dunbar-number-friendships

And : https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191001-dunbars-number-why-we-can-only-maintain-150-relationships 



Kurt Vonnegut book, Galapagos: https://amzn.to/2tHuQWW

Book by Andrew Newberg “How God changes your brain”: https://amzn.to/36if6Hc


Early writing, in Egypt:

Extensive article: https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199935413.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199935413-e-61 

A bit more reader-friendly: https://www.reckon.com/reckon-blog/ancient-egyptians-the-original-bookkeepers1/ 


“Hidden Brain” episode of the origin of religion:  https://www.npr.org/2019/05/06/720656274/where-does-religion-come-from-one-researcher-points-to-cultural-evolution 

Short video on humans from 200,000 years ago to now and the population changes throughout the world: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/aekazg/watching-humans-take-over-the-earth-in-200000-years-is-pretty-relaxing 


BIblical references: 

Gen 11: 1-9 and tower of Babel: https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.11?lang=bi&aliyot=0 

Gen 4:1-16 and Cain/Abel story: https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.4?ven=Jewish_English_Torah&lang=bi&aliyot=0 

Big Gods or Big Cities….and the problems with trying to find out:

        1. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/scienceonreligion/2019/05/did-big-gods-come-before-or-after-big-societies/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=share_bar&fbclid=IwAR3lVLCmhHpZ1uXfDveYj2q3ppmT7CHiU3Q59Td6W6ntr45UQBSf9UBJcXw#pbXkMxz9qZkCbB8O.01 
        2. http://nautil.us/blog/which-comes-first-big-cities-or-big-gods 
        3. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6251/918.full 
        4. https://theconversation.com/big-gods-came-after-the-rise-of-civilisations-not-before-finds-study-using-huge-historical-database-113801 
        5. https://www.livescience.com/65039-punishing-gods-rise-with-complex-societies.html 
        6. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-religion-may-have-gotten-too-much-credit-for-the-evolution-of-modern-society/ 


Human Origins Part 2 (Did Neanderthals Go to Heaven?)

January 15, 2020

Episode 21

Our Human Origins miniseries keeps rolling as we explore the implications of art, social structures, and burials among Neanderthals and early Homo Sapiens in the Stone Age (specifically about 65,000 BCE to 10,000 BCE). How much can we infer from the clues they left behind? What of the small idols that predate all known religions by 15,000 years? Was God speaking to early humans like God speaks today? Are we making too much out of too little? Why does spirituality always seem to pop up whenever humans are around? 

Support this podcast on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/DowntheWormholepodcast

More information at https://www.downthewormhole.com/


produced by Zack Jackson
music by Zack Jackson and Barton Willis


Show Notes

Cave Paintings


Cave Burials


Venus Figures



Honey Bee Dance “the Waggle”




Overview of human evolution





https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/08/news-denisovan-neanderthal-hominin-hybrid-ancient-human/ [first generation offspring of Denisovan and Neanderthal; tiny pinky bone fragment]

https://leakeyfoundation.org/origin-stories-the-denisovans/ [podcast which was referenced]

Homo Sapiens



Giant fauna

Sloth for Kendra to curl up into : https://www.livescience.com/56762-giant-ground-sloth.html 

Marsupials with large pouches : 


They went extinct : 



Read more : https://www.americanscientist.org/article/what-became-of-the-megafauna 


Religious pieces

Rachel sitting on idols : https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.31.34?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en 

What is religiousity : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity 

Spiritual / religious : https://chopra.com/articles/religion-vs-spirituality-what-is-the-difference

“Sapiens” by Yuval Harari book : https://www.ynharari.com/book/sapiens/

Human Origins Part 1 with Briana Pobiner (Big Questions and Little Bones)

January 8, 2020

Episode 20

This week, we welcome paleoanthropologist Dr Briana Pobiner as we begin to explore our own evolution. Dr Pobiner is the head of education and outreach for the Smithsonian Natural History Museum's Human Origins Program. We talk about how we know what we know about early humans, where we came from, what caused us to advance so quickly, and what that means for our self-identity today. If you're into saber-tooth cats, pumpkin spice crickets, and hope for humanity, then make sure you listen to this one!

Support this podcast on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/DowntheWormholepodcast

More information at https://www.downthewormhole.com/


produced by Zack Jackson
music by Zack Jackson


Show Notes

Dr Briana Pobiner's bio and publications


The "Teaching Evolution through Human Examples" (TEtHE) three-year exploratory research and development project was funded by National Science Foundation Discovery Research K-12 grant #1119468. The project has created four curriculum units for Advanced Placement (AP) Biology classes, aligned to the learning objectives, using human case studies to teach core evolutionary principles. The curriculum units are: (1) Adaptation to Altitude, (2) Malaria, (3) Evolution of Human Skin Color, and (4) What Does It Mean To Be Human?. The project has also created a CRS (Cultural and Religious Sensitivity) Teaching Strategies Resource to help teachers create a comfortable and supportive classroom environment for teaching evolution.



The Expensive Tissue Hypothesis


Edible Insects and Human Evolution by Julie Lesnik


Interview with Julie Lesnik on the amazing but somewhat NSFW podcast "Ologies"


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